Comments on: Why Great Development Tools Don’t Seem To Be Written In PHP

By: Wil Sinclair

Wil Sinclair — Wed, 23 Dec 2009 04:29:53 +0000

IMO the biggest reason has been mentioned a few times, but not called out as clearly as it might be: lack of support for threads in PHP. This certainly affects the continuous integration tool and the unit test framework (Java can- and JUnit more often than not does- just start threads for a new, clean environment). You can work around it with system-level events, like cron jobs, but it’s simply not the sweet spot for PHP. PHP does seem to be a natural fit for a web-based bug tracker, however.

I’ll break from the pack a bit on the build/reuse issue. I say there are better wheels out there that have yet to be invented- both figuratively and literally. And with the ease of development afforded by frameworks and tools nowadays, brand spanking new web apps often cost less than adapting existing OSS project to your needs. Building a community around these apps is another matter, however, and that’s really the challenge in an open source app.

IMO you should do what’s best for your personal needs under the assumption that others have those needs, with consideration given to existing project. Maybe the users will come, maybe not. At least you have your tool that gets right to the features that you need. If you want an easy solution, base it on an existing framework. ;)

,Wil

By: Jon Adams

Jon Adams — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 05:36:48 +0000

@kiang and anyone else interested: thechaw (http://thechaw.com) is open source as of yesterday (http://thechaw.com/wiki/dev/logs/2009-12-14) ;) – tickets, wiki, web based repo viewers and mangement (git, svn and more — I noticed svn stuff in the source but we use mainly for git).

You can see it in action at thechaw itself or at http://rad-dev.org (we’ve done some extensive theme-ing there).

I, too, want to see more killer PHP apps around the web. Though, sites like Digg and Facebook prove that some really fantastic sites can be developed with it; php could use more tools and micro-apps pushing the bar in little and big ways. I guess that’s where we all come in. Good luck with whatever you pursue, Brandon.

By: Bob

Bob — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:05:27 +0000

Jotbug (very alpha, from what I can tell) is currently the only thing I know of that is more like a Trac/Redmine clone in PHP than Mantis is.

http://www.jotbug.org/

Fusionforge and its brethren are PHP, I think, but I’m not sure you’d want to count those.

By: Brandon Savage

Brandon Savage — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 02:04:06 +0000

Paul, that’s been mentioned to me, and writing a bug tracker is first on the list. Should be ready by April 1, if I keep to my schedule.

By: Paul

Paul — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 01:23:03 +0000

Hey Brandon, I don’t know if you read the php.internals list but the subject of a need for an improved bug tracker for PHP has come up. http://news.php.net/php.internals/46344.

By: e-75

e-75 — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:24:29 +0000

Hi,

one of the biggest problems in PHP community is desire to do something from scratch over and over again. Like some people above said, please join some open source project and share your ideas wit them and community will get a nice tool to use. Another one will be just lost in the ocean of similar unfinished projects.

Thanks,
Ivan

By: James

James — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 03:01:19 +0000

Please don’t reinvent the wheel and contribute something useful.

I’m a Java developer but I don’t expect every development tool I use must be written in Java. I use what’s best in the relevant areas.

I use Trac (Python), Redmine (Ruby on Rails) etc with which I’m fully satisfied.

Do use a IDE which is written on PHP? Do you use a UML modeling tool that is written in PHP?

There are plenty of good apps written in PHP, Python, Java, Ruby etc. Just use what serves you best.

By: kiang

kiang — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:11:51 +0000

Maybe we should say “Why there are so many similar development tools written in php” ;)

http://www.jotbug.org/
http://thechaw.com/candycane ( thechaw is also written in PHP/CakePHP, but not available in public )
http://www.codendi.com/

By: Miles Johnson

Miles Johnson — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 08:49:13 +0000

I never said im against OOP. But personally I find it pointless and a waste a time to create abstract and interface classes for everything (ala Zend). Ill stick to getting the exact same functionality done, without needing so many classes and files and still keeping it modular. Personal preference, dont need to go full OOP just for the sake to say its full OOP.

Especially for a “bug tracker”, that is installed on peoples boxes and requires so many dependencies. Something just seems really wrong about that. I can see where OOP would be perfect for large applications and websites, but not for something that should be user installed.

By: sp2hari

sp2hari — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 08:41:10 +0000

I guess wikipedia, wordpress and facebook are written in PHP. Why do you think there aren’t enough apps written in PHP?

By: Brandon Savage

Brandon Savage — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 03:04:11 +0000

Hey, that’s not cool. There was a time when I didn’t see a point to objects; now I write object-oriented code almost exclusively. It’s crucial that we maintain decorum in various debates about software development; Miles may be incorrect but that’s his prerogative.

Please keep comments polite and on topic.

By: Exception e

Exception e — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 00:43:40 +0000

@Miles Johnson
You could do it with functional programming (Erlang, F#, Haskell), but *procedural programming* is a no-no. OOP isn’t the only paradigm.
But I think what you are proposing is the procedural clutter as can be found in phpmyadmin etc. For this there is no defense.

By: Les

Les — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:57:05 +0000

> abstract, or an interface, or have it split into smaller objects.

Well, yes it does :)

If you want superior software then you use the standard and that (just) happens to be object oriented methodologies.

Drop object oriented methodologies and you drop way too many other natural benefits to software development; so enough of your bullsh*t okay?

By: Miles Johnson

Miles Johnson — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:41:02 +0000

@Herman – Hah! Well of course it is, but I personally find it pointless. When the same can be done non-oop. Not everything needs an abstract, or an interface, or have it split into smaller objects.

By: Exception e

Exception e — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 14:14:05 +0000

I’ve looked into the source code, and it seems to be based on ezc.

Not totally convinced. E.g “classes\framework\base.php” tries to outsmart the php opcode cacher. This is a big no-no.

I tried to find the class “arbitController” and had a very hard hard time to locate it. Finally i found it in “classes\controller\base.php” :O

It seems that the model (e.g. class “arbitModelProject”) handles storage responsibilities too.

The code is clean and well documented, but the separation of concerns are likely suboptimal. But compared to projects like phpmyadmin this is a giant leap forward.